Carson City Mint bag was probably used for gold
GoldenEyeNumismatics
Posts: 13,187 ✭✭✭
A couple weeks ago I spotted a Carson City Mint bag on eBay. Shortly thereafter GSAcollector posted a link here asking if it was a Morgan Dollar bag or not. Being that it was well before the auction ended and I wanted to bid, I asked him to remove the link so as not to attract to much attention to the piece. Later in the week I was the successful winner at $181. After the auction closed and a link was posted to it on the original thread, I expressed that I thought it might be a bag used to store coin dies. RWB stated the possibility is was used to store gold coin (Double Eagles in particular).
GSAcollector's thread
link to the original eBay auction
I remember several years ago, when I discussed US Mint bags and bank bags with Larry Gentile Sr, he stated that sometimes when you turn a bag inside out, tiny bits of coin laminations can be found caught in the frayed canvas at the bottom of the inside of the bag.
So when I got the bag in hand today, I was curious to see if this same concept could be applied to see what this bag once held. Unfortunately, the bag is too long and narrow for me to turn inside out without potentially damaging it. Instead, I held it open, upside-down into a ziplock bag, and flicked the upturned bottom of the bag until particles began to fall into the ziplock. No sizable bits of anything came out---just canvas dust and tiny grains.
I looked at these particles under an observation microscope. Besides grains of sand, tiny wood fibers and canvas fibers, there were quite clearly a number of particles of gold in the mix. These could potentially be micro-laminations from a coin or ingot, or simply particles of placer gold dust. Here are a few pics I was able to take through the microscope:
So now I know that at some point, this bag was used to store gold. However, I can't say for sure if it was coins, small ingots, gold dust, or something that someone put into it after the bag got out of the mint.
GSAcollector's thread
link to the original eBay auction
I remember several years ago, when I discussed US Mint bags and bank bags with Larry Gentile Sr, he stated that sometimes when you turn a bag inside out, tiny bits of coin laminations can be found caught in the frayed canvas at the bottom of the inside of the bag.
So when I got the bag in hand today, I was curious to see if this same concept could be applied to see what this bag once held. Unfortunately, the bag is too long and narrow for me to turn inside out without potentially damaging it. Instead, I held it open, upside-down into a ziplock bag, and flicked the upturned bottom of the bag until particles began to fall into the ziplock. No sizable bits of anything came out---just canvas dust and tiny grains.
I looked at these particles under an observation microscope. Besides grains of sand, tiny wood fibers and canvas fibers, there were quite clearly a number of particles of gold in the mix. These could potentially be micro-laminations from a coin or ingot, or simply particles of placer gold dust. Here are a few pics I was able to take through the microscope:
So now I know that at some point, this bag was used to store gold. However, I can't say for sure if it was coins, small ingots, gold dust, or something that someone put into it after the bag got out of the mint.
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Comments
Great find and glad it turned out well!
(Next challange. Determine the date of the coins/bars that were in the bag, or the origin of the gold.)
definitely a conversation piece
-Paul
That's the kind of thing that really helps a person connect with the past - makes it seem not so long ago.
Stuff like this is what keeps me coming back here.
pretty cool piece of numismatic history, and great find.
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
I never would have thought about turning it inside out!
The name is LEE!
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Historical note:
Bags and boxes used for shipment of gold coins were commonly burned after the coins were removed. This was done to recover any traces of gold that had abraded from the coins during shipment. Bags for silver and bronze coin were usually reused because the silver alloy was harder than gold and did not abrade very much during shipment.
(Anecdote: In the early 20th century, crafty Swiss bankers were known to routinely shake bags of gold before opening and weighing the coins. Since gold coins were accounted for by weight/fineness and not face value, shipments usually came up short weight. The Swiss bankers then discounted their remittance to the original shipper for the short weight of gold. Later, the bankers burned the bags and recovered the extra gold thus increasing their profit.)
<< <i>If you find an old mint bag – do not wash it. Do what the OP did. See below from the OP's initial posting.
Historical note:
Bags and boxes used for shipment of gold coins were commonly burned after the coins were removed. This was done to recover any traces of gold that had abraded from the coins during shipment. Bags for silver and bronze coin were usually reused because the silver alloy was harder than gold and did not abrade very much during shipment.
(Anecdote: In the early 20th century, crafty Swiss bankers were known to routinely shake bags of gold before opening and weighing the coins. Since gold coins were accounted for by weight/fineness and not face value, shipments usually came up short weight. The Swiss bankers then discounted their remittance to the original shipper for the short weight of gold. Later, the bankers burned the bags and recovered the extra gold thus increasing their profit.) >>
another neat story is:
from Superintendents of the 1st & 2nd San Francisco Mints by Richard Nancy Oliver & Richard Kelly.
The carpet in the Coiner's office was necessary, as his was entirely worn out and entirely unfit for use, and being so full of gold and silver, was replaced with a new one, in order that he might burn the old one. (p9)
---
great post goldeneye.
100 years from now it may be "discovered" again by some excited collector!
bob
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Good story, nice thread.
<< <i>those spots on the reverse lead to guess that it wont slab... >>
A good dry cleaning will take care of those spots.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I can imagine that very small bits of metal could stick to a die and then fall off when the die was returned to this bag. I don't believe that the mint ever stored gold bars in individual bags, and it really seems like the wrong shape in which to ship coins of any quantity.
Like I said, just a thought.
"Question your assumptions."
"Intelligence is an evolutionary adaptation."